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what's up everybody happy tuesday we

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have a very special guest today

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uh mr robert coford

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he's been with the show uh watching

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participating um and is has been a

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friend for for a while now so and he was

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on the show a while back a couple times

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but it's been a while since we've been

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able to have him back so i look forward

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to having him back and we're going to

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talk

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about sports or something like that but

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i doubt it

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but um just in case robert if you're

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listening you

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open the sports page in the newspaper

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be prepared in case i throw you some

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curveballs

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get it careful

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all right so

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hang tight in a second we'll be back

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so

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i'm back

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all right so without further ado let me

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bring in the man at the legend the myth

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the culford

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of robert how are you hey hey

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good to see you

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i not breaking up or anything no sounds

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good like the t-shirt too

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oh yeah you know standard black classic

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black nothing like standard black man

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yeah well i had my work shirt on and but

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i'm at home now doing a podcast

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i had to get more cozy

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so

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since we talked we've had uh

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uh congressional hearings we've had

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uh nasa enter the game apparently to to

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study ufos

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i don't know if you've been watching but

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we've also had uh an announcement from a

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soviet

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um

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or not soviet but

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they used to be this

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but a russia uh

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like the head of their you know version

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of nasa basically come out and say

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they're starting to do a ufo uh study

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and he believes that some of them might

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be of extraterrestrial

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uh life

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and uh china just came out recently uh

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today an article came out

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uh where they are getting some signals

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from outer space

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apparently um you know that we hear that

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a lot but they say these are different

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these are different there could be

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something there so

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uh

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you know being a long-time ufo

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researcher as you are

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what is your take of the current

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disclosure climate do you think we're

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any closer uh to any type of disclosure

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is this all hogwash if it is hogwash why

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um

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it's it's kind of

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well you know i feel disclosure happened

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a long time ago it's just

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nobody likes to read

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[Laughter]

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right so it took a lot longer and uh

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so they have to it's kind of like they

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have to force everybody to

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see this

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in a way i mean you know as well as i do

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there's some people even family members

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you could talk to all day don't know

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they they nod and then they go on

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they don't think it's important and

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right i guess i'm a fool but i've always

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felt it was impo well always ever since

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i got involved felt this importance

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about it

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i know my dad whichever one of my dads

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was with me in that first sighting

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i know they felt

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funny about it and

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yeah

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there's

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too much stigma

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so this has got to happen because we

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have to remove the stigma all the way

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yeah can't be anything left

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because it's too weird as it is

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yeah

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so

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many still too many experts that we

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can't check you know i don't want to

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hear them anymore unless they want to

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start

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offering documents or whatever for

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everything they say which is why i

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appreciate you so much because that's

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that's really what's needed right now

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more than ever and people have to

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understand that because there's really

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no other way for us to check the

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validity of what they're telling us

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right

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well let me ask you if people were to

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say like uh richard dottie for instance

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right

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now like i make stuff up he pulls it out

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of his butt sometimes i'm pretty sure

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and serves it on a platter to people

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some people just go for it hook line and

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sinker even though he's been kind of

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debunked

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as the source in the past why do you

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think people do that

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because in reality people want to hear

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something fantastic

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and some people and they just want to

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accept it as it is

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and

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you know he's a pet peeve of mine i mean

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i have nothing against him in person

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maybe he's a nice guy and everything

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although

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after i read

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years ago what they did to that

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scientist

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uh and then i don't know how he can live

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with himself and just make light of it

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and make it sound like oh i was just

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doing my job just yes as far as i'm

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concerned you ruined somebody's life and

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then you come back and you want to be

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the expert we all listen to

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and and you tell us and you tell us that

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but it's all just we have to take your

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word for it i'm not going to take your

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word for it

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trust me

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for a reason too

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yeah no i i can't the other ones are

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like that too i'd like to believe some

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of them but they never really produce

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anything substantial

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some of them offer some things but

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a lot of it is just so

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piercy-ish

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i just yeah deal with it anymore

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you can't deal with it it's stressing

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you out

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that's why i just think you know people

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get bored with it but

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now more than ever we need the document

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whatever documentation we have that's

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valid that's proved that we know it's

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real we don't have to question it like

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the majestic documents everything we

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have like that we should have people

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that immerse themselves in it so we can

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lean on them

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like me and other people that have done

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this we need this

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because if they say something that we

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need to know if it's the truth or not

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how are we gonna know are we gonna test

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them if we don't have people

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that have done their homework you know

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ahead of time yes yeah

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we got you

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i no i hear you i hear you and you know

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for i agree for the most part so i don't

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i can't think of anything i wouldn't

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agree with there so

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it's like rachel he always brings up

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he always comes up with his attitude you

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know i try to tell people they just

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don't listen to me and every time

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come on and then you keep saying there

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were two roswell crashes one in 1949 but

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noah come on we present the

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documentation when we talk

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yeah we do the same thing he's he was

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with the afosi he should have lots of

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documentation

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yeah most definitely you would think

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you would think

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um

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but it's pretty easy to say what you

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want when you don't have to bring

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documents right like i could totally say

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but you know robert now's the time i'm

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going to tell you

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i'm actually

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retired osi agent for the air force and

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i just want to tell you that area 51 was

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the place we had crash vehicles there

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one crash in 1978 you know it was a

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classic flying saucer but i'm telling

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you

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[Laughter]

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yeah

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you know that's the real reason right

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there because you know what i do that's

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a that's always been a bad problem it

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was a bad problem when i first got

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involved in this were

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yeah you get excited it's kind of like

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when you first become a believer as a

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christian or any other religion you get

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all excited and bubbly and you think

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everybody wants to hear what you have to

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say and you just every five seconds

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you're talking about it but

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no one else yeah

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but no one cares

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[Laughter]

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so

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you know when

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when you first uh was it your sighting

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that uh got you first into

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you know saying hey i want to try to

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figure something out

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yeah it was what that that night with

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like like i've said before i think you

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talk about it you go through it again if

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you don't mind my my brother and my mom

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and i have all talked since then you

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know and we tried to figure out which

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dad it was because uh

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my real dad shipped to vietnam he was uh

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north north carolina we lived at fort

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bragg north carolina and that's where he

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was stationed with special forces

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so

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the army lied to my mom

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and told her that he wasn't coming back

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because he gambled away his

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his return papers or something like that

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and something just crazy and my mom

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believed it they divorced

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and my stepdad you know comes on

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but the thing is they both weirdly they

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both have the same color automobile

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and in my memory of this event i always

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see the back end of the blue car

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and it's the exact color but it could

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have been my dad's corvair or it could

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have been my step-dad's old mobile i

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mean they were exact same but i don't

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know and that if i could that would kind

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of place which guy which dad it was it

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was with me when it happened because i

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never see him i always know he's just

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behind me

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to my left and i don't know why we're

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out of the car but we're pulled over

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it's dark it looks like the territory

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around both georgia and north carolina

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with two lane highways and it's forest

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on one side and a glade and then a

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forest on the other

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and all i remember is i'm at the left

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rear bumper

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and i see the blue car

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and i know my dad's behind me

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and i look up and there's what's like a

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goodyear blimp

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like thing

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hovering right over us and it's got big

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picturesque windows going down the side

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and i remember seeing silhouettes of

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people inside and i waved my hand like

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this wow

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and somebody waved back and at that

284
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:54,959
incident my dad grabbed my shoulder and

285
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:56,160
told me to get back in the car and

286
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:57,519
that's all i remember about that

287
00:11:01,829 --> 00:10:59,200
incident wow

288
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,839
you it waved to aliens

289
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:03,600
yeah i went whoever they were i waved

290
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:05,040
and they waved back

291
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:07,920
wow did it did you remember how it took

292
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:08,880
off

293
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:10,480
no because that's all i remember is my

294
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:12,880
dad ordering me back into the car i i

295
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:14,800
think i remember him shoving me into the

296
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,440
front seat but that may be just i may

297
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:19,760
have added that because my last clear

298
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:22,160
memory is him yelling pretty much get

299
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:25,200
back in the car bobby and yeah

300
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:27,760
and ever since then you had i don't know

301
00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:31,920
ufo flying saucer fever i guess yeah bad

302
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:33,680
because i tried to ask

303
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:36,399
uh my dad my dad my step-dad

304
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,839
you know and he just would never he

305
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:39,200
would never talk to me about anything it

306
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:41,040
took him years to tell me about his

307
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,399
involvement with

308
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:44,560
strategy you know the uh studies and

309
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:46,800
observations group in vietnam he just

310
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:48,880
wouldn't talk about anything

311
00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:51,040
even on his deathbed he wouldn't talk

312
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,200
about anything he kept it all in

313
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:55,279
side so i don't know i wish you would

314
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:56,639
have bought me

315
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:58,800
yeah well apparently uh

316
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:00,880
there's some ufos seen in vietnam too

317
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,519
right they're called enemy helicopters

318
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,519
6768

319
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,600
time period that i know of there might

320
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,880
have been others but

321
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,720
yeah the ones i checked on you know

322
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:12,880
barry greenwood published it i think the

323
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:14,639
first time in his book

324
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,519
uh

325
00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:17,279
forgot the title

326
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,440
but it's a good book

327
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:21,279
so you have this sighting you can't

328
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:24,000
really talk uh to your dad about it or

329
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,120
anything

330
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:26,639
you know as far as you're concerned

331
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:28,560
you've waved to some sort of entities

332
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:30,959
that you have no idea what they are

333
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,680
uh in a vehicle any

334
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:35,279
in some sort of vehicle that you don't

335
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:36,480
understand

336
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,320
so um take me to what happens

337
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:42,480
what happens next is there a book that

338
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:44,800
you get or a movie that you see or how

339
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,600
do you

340
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:47,360
like other people

341
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,560
there are

342
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,120
scattered memories from that point on

343
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,680
until until we moved out to california

344
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:55,279
but that's what's weird i never

345
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:56,560
mentioned this

346
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:57,680
uh

347
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:01,440
when we were in georgia with my stepdad

348
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,160
the

349
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:04,320
he was stationed at hunter army airfield

350
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,320
there in georgia savannah georgia and

351
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:08,160
that's where they were training huey

352
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:11,040
pilots for vietnam and the cobra was

353
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,279
being worked on they were testing the

354
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:15,680
kiwi cobra there in fact my one of my

355
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:18,240
best buddies dad got killed test buying

356
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,399
the cobra he crashed in the marsh

357
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,240
outside of the base

358
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:24,399
wow i remember my mom

359
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,519
was the designated person terrible job

360
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,760
in the military she had to go to

361
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:31,519
she was once people to go to people's

362
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:33,360
houses and ring the bell and tell them

363
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:34,880
we're sorry to tell you your husband's

364
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,360
but i'll never forget oh my god it was

365
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,240
so traumatic but

366
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,399
my brother and i it was a big thing for

367
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,320
us to go my dad sometimes would take us

368
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:46,320
and we'd watch as the hueys came in and

369
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:47,279
i mean the

370
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:48,720
massive numbers of them would come in

371
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,720
one after another you know and it was

372
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:52,399
really cool to watch so we were really

373
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:53,680
into that

374
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:54,560
and

375
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:55,680
when

376
00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:59,279
blue book files

377
00:14:03,189 --> 00:14:01,440
i i tried to find out

378
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,199
i looked up hunter army airfield and

379
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:05,199
sure enough there were sightings there

380
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:06,800
and it happened

381
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:08,560
i tried to get my brother what year did

382
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:10,240
we leave hunter and he

383
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,279
were stuck

384
00:14:14,829 --> 00:14:13,440
it was probably somewhere in the late

385
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,839
60s

386
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:17,279
68-ish maybe in the same general time

387
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:19,519
versus weird stuff we know about

388
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:20,720
and

389
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:23,360
i know that in that general time period

390
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:25,760
or maybe a year afterwards

391
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:28,000
hunter army airfield itself was deluged

392
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,959
with flying discs this one night causing

393
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:33,040
a major security

394
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:34,000
thing

395
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:35,839
so i wonder you know it made me think ah

396
00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:38,320
i wonder what that was the same night

397
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:40,000
we were if only i could remember what

398
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:41,519
nobody seems to remember what year we

399
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:44,880
moved out here i don't know why

400
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,839
it was very close it's the 60s man

401
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:49,440
so i think maybe uh

402
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:50,160
they

403
00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:58,800
hey where'd you get that little kid go

404
00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:01,839
yeah pro probably but you know my dad

405
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:04,079
did have a lot of weird memories too

406
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:05,760
growing up that's why i always suspected

407
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:08,560
it was him because he used to come home

408
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:10,560
sometimes and say he had

409
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,399
unbelievable weird fear that somebody

410
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:13,920
was going to pull him over sometimes and

411
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:16,320
he had no idea where that came from

412
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:19,040
and this is a top-notch tough military

413
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:20,240
guy you know

414
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:21,760
through vietnam

415
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:23,760
right

416
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:26,240
yeah that's interesting and you know

417
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:28,240
there's people get these kind of weird

418
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:30,560
intuition vibes

419
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:31,839
throughout their life and i wonder

420
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:33,600
sometimes what that's about if it has

421
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:36,240
anything to do with ufos or is it

422
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,399
paranormal or

423
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:40,560
or is it about me because

424
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,959
you've got your ufo signing and now

425
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:44,480
well i don't know maybe beforehand too

426
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,079
but the dream thing i mean that same

427
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:47,839
stuff has been happening with me since

428
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:50,639
since that sighting i've had so many

429
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:53,440
snippets of dreams that have come true

430
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,040
you know and it's been so frustrating

431
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:57,839
for me because i never can do anything

432
00:16:01,509 --> 00:16:00,320
about it i'll see a plane crash

433
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:01,519
and then i'll see it on the news the

434
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:03,199
next day but it's not like i can phone

435
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,720
somebody go hey there's gonna be a plane

436
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:05,600
crash

437
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:08,720
right right never happens okay sir would

438
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:11,120
you just relax

439
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:12,160
yeah

440
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:13,759
wow so

441
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,519
helpful they're not helpful dreams

442
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,279
they're just they're already following

443
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:19,199
the term that it's showing me

444
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:20,639
it's obviously showing me something

445
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:23,600
about time that maybe time truly is like

446
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:27,120
this spiral or or a circle or something

447
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:29,040
interesting the spiral thing i don't

448
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:31,120
know if you watch that skin walker show

449
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:34,000
but that spiral thing is is uh

450
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:37,440
kind of popular and native american lure

451
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,639
and everything and it has something to

452
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:40,880
do with like portals and stuff pretty

453
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:43,040
pretty interesting stuff

454
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:44,800
but they're you know you possibly see

455
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:46,639
something ahead of time

456
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:48,160
even a snippet

457
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:52,000
how could that be it donates me man

458
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:54,560
if time is linear it hasn't happened yet

459
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,079
so how could we see something ahead of

460
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:58,639
time so obviously time can't be totally

461
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:59,680
linear

462
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,560
right

463
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:03,040
it has in your consciousness has to

464
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:06,400
basically be able to travel through time

465
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:08,480
it has to be something like that yeah

466
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:10,319
time travel like somebody on the comment

467
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:12,400
section one time when i was on watching

468
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:13,679
one of your shows said something like

469
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:16,640
that and it did ring with me

470
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:19,039
time travel will be consciousness we'll

471
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:21,919
be doing it with our consciousness

472
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:24,400
yeah that makes a lot of sense actually

473
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:27,760
well i mean as much as it can

474
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:29,919
we've seen hints of it already with this

475
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,799
uh remote viewing stuff that kind of

476
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,240
hints at it

477
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:36,320
i'm bringing up this uh document here

478
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:38,080
because he mentioned

479
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:39,760
uh hunter

480
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:45,270
i thought i would bring this up

481
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,960
it is

482
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:47,840
[Music]

483
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:51,520
oh crap no i lost where it was

484
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:53,840
but uh this was

485
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:56,080
at hunter air force base

486
00:18:01,990 --> 00:17:57,520
sorry i'm just scrolling through this

487
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:04,070
um on my page

488
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,960
i lost my page

489
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:09,120
unfortunately well we'll keep talking

490
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:12,240
while i try to find it again but it it

491
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,679
looked pretty interesting at the start

492
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:15,600
and involved two boys

493
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:18,720
i was like um i wonder if robertsonville

494
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:21,520
so you're looking through this blue

495
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:24,320
1968.

496
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:25,520
yeah

497
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:27,679
oh here it is i found it again

498
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,240
that's interesting oh there's

499
00:18:34,820 --> 00:18:32,880
guess what they said it was

500
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:34,830
a balloon yes

501
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:38,240
[Laughter]

502
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:51,029
this is to report the sighting of an

503
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:54,320
unusual aerial object on april 4th 1968

504
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:55,840
over thunderbolt

505
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:58,480
georgia at 7 40 pm two boys were using a

506
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:00,559
small telescope on the lawn of a

507
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:02,080
residence

508
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:03,600
the boy not observing through the

509
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:06,320
telescope suddenly exclaimed to the

510
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,000
other to the effect that something

511
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:10,000
unusual was moving in the sky both boys

512
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:11,280
then observed the object until it

513
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:14,320
disappeared a view behind the trees

514
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:15,280
wow

515
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:17,039
and then when the boys related this to

516
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:19,360
me i separated them and asked each one

517
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:21,280
to draw the object he had seen while

518
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:23,039
they were making the drawings i called

519
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:25,840
hunter army airfield

520
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,919
and reported the sighting to the officer

521
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:29,919
with whom i was connected when i asked

522
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:32,320
for a ufo officer the boys finished the

523
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:34,400
drawing drawings within 10 minutes after

524
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:36,000
seeing the object

525
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:38,559
i was moving almost due north along a

526
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:40,480
south north line about 80 degrees but

527
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:42,080
the west horizon it was moving much

528
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:44,400
faster than a jet aircraft that had

529
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:47,039
passed overhead shortly before

530
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:49,520
left no trail interesting so

531
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:52,320
um oh they made drawings

532
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:53,919
beautiful definitely things going on at

533
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:57,200
that time there so if that adds to it oh

534
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,039
that's because that's the difference

535
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,440
than the one i read there's another one

536
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:03,280
at the actual air force at the actual

537
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:06,000
air base oh okay

538
00:20:09,909 --> 00:20:07,919
yeah you know what's interesting that

539
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:09,919
that people don't

540
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:11,039
you know you're right when you say

541
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,880
disclosure kind of already has happened

542
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:14,400
but people don't like to read so much

543
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,600
because

544
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,200
you know just like this document for

545
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:19,440
instance

546
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:22,159
if most people read that they would stop

547
00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:26,640
it wait what a a ufo officer

548
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:29,670
excuse me there were ufo officers

549
00:20:36,549 --> 00:20:33,440
[Laughter]

550
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:36,559
yes there were can you believe it

551
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:38,240
and trust me do that if there were no

552
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,440
ufos right it i mean or they'd call them

553
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:43,600
balloon officers right that's true they

554
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:44,720
should be

555
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:47,760
probable balloon officers

556
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:50,000
quite possibly so you're so you're

557
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:52,159
looking through these blue book files um

558
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:54,480
going back a little bit um

559
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,480
you know what was your

560
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:58,320
you know i feel like when i got into the

561
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:00,559
into the blue book files i

562
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,000
kind of it there's a lot there so it's

563
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:06,480
like how do you hone in and focus on

564
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:08,640
this or that or how do you not just get

565
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:10,400
lost in it you know at first you're

566
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:11,760
getting excited about everything you

567
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:13,840
read and then you realize that a lot of

568
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:15,760
them are prozac how do you filter them

569
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:16,960
out what do you do

570
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:19,760
so what was your first like um what did

571
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:21,440
you latch on to first when you were

572
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:23,120
looking at these blue book files like

573
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:24,400
what were the first things that were

574
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:25,679
coming to your head

575
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,679
i i did kind of what you

576
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:29,520
just mentioned first you know i just

577
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,960
started

578
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:32,240
going through them

579
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:34,000
i looked up a couple of dates you know

580
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,280
files

581
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,760
but then i realized

582
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,600
this is what i always wanted ever since

583
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,200
i was little to be able to access all

584
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:43,440
these files so

585
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,880
i started

586
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:46,559
i just started reading

587
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,640
and then reading and reading because i

588
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,159
figured

589
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,320
as i got to meet other people in the ufo

590
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,320
field and some of them we know about

591
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:56,400
they're famous some of them not but

592
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,200
i began to meet more and more of them

593
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:01,679
and i began to realize a lot of them

594
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,400
they were reading these files i assumed

595
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:05,840
they had read the files or they were

596
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:08,080
reading it really

597
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:09,039
yeah

598
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,120
i took it upon myself quietly to just

599
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,200
read as much as i could all the time

600
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:15,120
whenever i had free time

601
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,679
and then eventually i got so into it i'm

602
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:19,360
sure you know it's like three in the

603
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,400
morning

604
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:22,720
and my wife's going what are you doing

605
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:25,360
oh i just read the rest of this document

606
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,240
it was a lot of that

607
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:30,320
because after you get to that certain

608
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:33,440
level you realize holy you know

609
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,360
camoly there's something really weird

610
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,280
going on here

611
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:39,440
the many times you see that same wave

612
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:40,480
where

613
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,400
you read a bunch of comments in the

614
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,640
documents and you go oh see it was all

615
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,080
nothing

616
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,240
two documents later you go what

617
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:50,320
they did for coupon they just said it

618
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:52,159
was nothing and then you keep reading

619
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,159
and that's what sucks you in you realize

620
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:56,799
there's a trick going on here you know

621
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,280
you can't trust what they say i hate to

622
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:02,080
say that but they were lying

623
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:04,240
and that's wrong you know these are

624
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:06,799
government officials and we pay their

625
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,360
salaries literally and i know there's

626
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:11,039
secret stuff that goes on but when you

627
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:13,360
look deeply into this you realize we've

628
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:16,880
been snowballed big time

629
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:18,960
really good people have been snowballed

630
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:20,080
by this

631
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:22,000
yeah it's not right

632
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:24,720
you're exactly correct because um you

633
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,520
know

634
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:27,600
when i first started reading the files

635
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:29,600
you read so many where they're like yeah

636
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:31,039
it turns out it was a balloon you're

637
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:32,960
like oh okay and

638
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,840
you know

639
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:35,520
they determined it was an aircraft oh

640
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:38,320
okay maybe there's not much here

641
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:40,080
like the the one from yesterday that

642
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:41,760
they called the balloon then

643
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:44,240
at edwards air force base and he but and

644
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:47,120
if i were to stop reading then i'd go

645
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:48,720
away thinking

646
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:51,360
it was a balloon but if you keep reading

647
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:53,200
all 100 documents in there all of a

648
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:55,279
sudden you find yourself on the air

649
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:58,080
force uh flight test center page where

650
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:59,120
they're like

651
00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:00,480
uh no

652
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:02,080
it's not a balloon it's highly

653
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:05,039
improbable this sighting is unknown

654
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,120
if you're like what the hell

655
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:09,360
think about all of the experts over

656
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,120
those years all the years

657
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,720
where they finally you know

658
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:15,120
even before condon everything people had

659
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,039
looked in and then they come away the

660
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:19,360
air force gave me a fact sheet and

661
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:21,279
i find there's really nothing going on

662
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:22,960
and they've been doing a good job

663
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:24,159
investigating

664
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:26,159
that's what they keep doing and we can

665
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,880
see

666
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:28,400
what it is they were looking at you know

667
00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:31,120
they weren't being shown the real files

668
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:32,960
they were being shown

669
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,400
like you know the files remember when

670
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,080
they tried to get rid of the program in

671
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,480
59 and 60 and they were trying to

672
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:40,480
parse it out to research development

673
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:42,080
command and they were oh

674
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:44,159
current you know

675
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:46,320
ferguson's going uh we can't take this

676
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,760
on right now and

677
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,520
uh they just

678
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:51,360
those documents you see a lot of that in

679
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:52,960
those when they're doing the history of

680
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:55,279
the program you'll read down and you'll

681
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:57,520
see like paragraph five just totally

682
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:59,600
whacked out it's like not true at all

683
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:01,919
and then paragraph eight not true

684
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:03,440
there's tons of that throughout and

685
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:04,559
those are what they were showing the

686
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:07,279
experts who were making decisions on how

687
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:09,360
should we proceed with this so that is

688
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:10,720
one other thing that might be different

689
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:12,000
now

690
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:17,760
right at the beginning

691
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:20,000
at the starting gate maybe they won't be

692
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,480
able to do that so easily now

693
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:24,960
right you said once to me something

694
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,880
about um how

695
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,400
you know basically how they keep their

696
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,640
secrets and it's you know they they

697
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:32,559
bring in new people every three years or

698
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:33,760
so

699
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:36,400
to start fresh explain to me what you're

700
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:38,080
what you mean with that well you can see

701
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,880
it in the history of the ufo program

702
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,200
like the the refreshing of addict

703
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:45,279
personnel in 49

704
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:46,559
you

705
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:50,240
in that case they brought them in

706
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:51,760
because they said they had to up the

707
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:54,960
qualifications of the engineers etc and

708
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:56,320
some of the people that were currently

709
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:57,679
working there didn't

710
00:26:01,669 --> 00:25:59,360
meet those new qualifications so they

711
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:01,679
were reassigned or whatever new people

712
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:02,960
brought in

713
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:06,080
but you can see how

714
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:08,799
like the original as we move into sign

715
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,640
the original estimate and everything how

716
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:12,240
that was so

717
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:14,000
important and that's why they developed

718
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,360
project sign

719
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,760
because there was a lot of really unique

720
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:19,039
cases that

721
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:21,520
colonel garrett put forth you know to

722
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:23,600
the committee

723
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:24,880
and then

724
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:26,720
they designed project sign but we also

725
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,760
see in the history of the documents how

726
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:31,279
other people come in and they're the

727
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:32,720
ones saying there's

728
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:34,240
nothing really and you hear the internal

729
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:36,559
memos and they're saying these flying

730
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:39,200
saucer people you know that they always

731
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:41,919
want to believe in it

732
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,640
yeah that's not the way it started

733
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:46,640
it did not start like that it was very

734
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,120
serious and it was the army that was in

735
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,440
control of it all of that time

736
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:53,279
and it's you know that's what i feel

737
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:55,919
it's this is part of the mystery it's

738
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:58,240
it's really because the army had a

739
00:27:03,669 --> 00:26:59,440
secret

740
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,679
from world war ii

741
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:05,440
right when the air force comes in

742
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:07,760
they're kind of laying on top of that

743
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:10,480
so they're kind of more used by the army

744
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:11,200
and

745
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:12,799
intelligence division

746
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:14,960
as their clearinghouse they were just

747
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:16,480
using the air force as a clearinghouse

748
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:19,679
of all the reports etc and then

749
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:21,200
as you know they had a top secret

750
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,679
control a 1917 in the intelligence

751
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:26,159
division where they sent the really hot

752
00:27:30,149 --> 00:27:28,159
stuff where military people were

753
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:30,159
involved everything but you don't read

754
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,440
that stuff in the

755
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:33,360
blue book files generally

756
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,720
when you get with

757
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,480
even jl and hynek type people when they

758
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,559
were talking to us it's always the same

759
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,080
big cases

760
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:42,559
same old same own

761
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:44,720
that's not where the meat is

762
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:47,520
that's true that's true you do notice

763
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,760
they talk about the same old cases and i

764
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:51,200
kind of take that back i don't know if

765
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:53,120
you feel the same way but i kind of go

766
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:56,000
back to uh the robertson panel with that

767
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,919
where they talk about

768
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,360
you know taking

769
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:01,679
you know the the cases where there's

770
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:04,159
there's you know this mystery at first

771
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,880
and then forcefully debunking it in to

772
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:09,360
the public and they probably stick to

773
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:11,520
certain cases because they can do that

774
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:13,279
with those exactly the ones that are

775
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,039
easier

776
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:17,919
i still recommend this book heavily

777
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:18,880
uh

778
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:20,320
in fact it would be a great book for you

779
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:22,960
guys to do on your book review show with

780
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:25,600
uh yeah zilla

781
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:28,159
roy craig because it's not super long

782
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:28,960
but

783
00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:31,679
what it really shows the same

784
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,640
uh the same pattern where his book is

785
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:35,919
like

786
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,640
one minute he's debunking stuff

787
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:41,200
and then for two pages he's writing as

788
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,799
if he's believing there's a conspiracy

789
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:44,640
in the background and then he goes on to

790
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:47,360
like a debunking thing and then it's see

791
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:48,960
he just keeps going back and forth like

792
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:51,600
it's it's the same pattern what book is

793
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:54,320
that called it's called ufos an

794
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:56,480
insider's view of the official quest for

795
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,399
evidence on the condom

796
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,840
uh

797
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:01,360
okay who wrote it

798
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:02,640
roy craig

799
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:04,399
right crazy

800
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,360
okay

801
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:07,200
awesome yeah i will

802
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:09,760
i'll uh wreck try try my best to

803
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,520
recommend it i don't know if they'll

804
00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:12,960
listen to me but i can at least

805
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:14,230
recommend it yeah you can

806
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:17,360
[Laughter]

807
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,520
yeah the condom report was interesting

808
00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:21,200
that's for sure so you're you're looking

809
00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:22,720
at these uh you're looking at these

810
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:25,840
files no i know you know a lot of people

811
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:27,200
some people may know this some people

812
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:28,799
may not but um

813
00:29:36,269 --> 00:29:32,399
uh robert's focus of of research is the

814
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,269
1948 which

815
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:41,760
is the the day that the

816
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,200
um

817
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,919
saucer crash in aztec new mexico uh

818
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:47,200
frank scully

819
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:49,600
wrote a book on it and told the story of

820
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:50,399
that

821
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:53,760
so tell me about how you came into the

822
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:56,399
aztec story and

823
00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:59,039
from there we can go into

824
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,080
why you focus on march 25th 1948 because

825
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:04,480
i don't know of any other ufo researcher

826
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:07,600
where their focus of study is a date

827
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:08,960
yeah and

828
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:10,880
thanks uh

829
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:13,279
i feel it's very important because i i

830
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,200
i'm feeling more and more like that date

831
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,760
is a very significant date in the whole

832
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:19,520
history of the program

833
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,880
and

834
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:22,799
it it keeps showing up with that well

835
00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:24,960
how it started was as i was saying

836
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:27,279
before you know i got to meet different

837
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:30,000
ufo researchers over time i got friends

838
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:31,520
with some of them

839
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:32,480
and

840
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:33,440
when i

841
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:35,679
started hearing about aztec

842
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:38,000
like most people i read most i looked

843
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,279
into a little bit of the look and i came

844
00:30:43,029 --> 00:30:41,440
away think that it's it seems like it

845
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:43,039
was a hoax i mean i don't know why they

846
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:45,120
did that but and that was my attitude

847
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:46,399
for many years

848
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:49,279
until i heard about scott ramsey and

849
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:52,320
their aztec book

850
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,760
and that information that they got and

851
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:55,760
so i i looked into a little bit a friend

852
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,039
of mine had

853
00:31:01,509 --> 00:30:59,360
uh william steinman's book on aztec and

854
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:01,519
he let me thumb through it

855
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:04,799
and i after i realized uh

856
00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:06,799
if there they came with a date you know

857
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:09,679
march 25th 1948 uh

858
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,919
frank scully didn't have a date

859
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:13,919
the closest he ever said was the summer

860
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:16,559
of 1949 which was

861
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:18,559
that's when he was first told about it

862
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:20,000
in a car ride

863
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:22,320
across the desert with the

864
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:24,000
tv executive

865
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:25,600
and um

866
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:28,480
and mr or dr gee and

867
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:29,919
silas newton they're all in a car

868
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:30,960
together

869
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,200
and that's but he never actually

870
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:36,000
set a date so i didn't hear the date 25

871
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:40,159
march 1948 until the ramsey team's book

872
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,279
so

873
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:43,440
i just started one day i was looking and

874
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:44,640
i thought

875
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:47,120
well if that really happened on march

876
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,799
don't you think something else would

877
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:50,480
have i mean there should be some kind of

878
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:53,120
signs that right in history or something

879
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,120
should be some kind of glimpse that

880
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,679
something really did happen so

881
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:59,360
i just started poking around in my free

882
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:01,440
time here and there until

883
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:04,399
i ran into uh i was on

884
00:32:06,190 --> 00:32:05,279
um

885
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:06,200
project

886
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:09,600
1947's web page they're historical

887
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:11,679
people project history

888
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:14,000
i figure but it's they had a list of

889
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,279
documents

890
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:17,600
and i was going through it and i saw

891
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:19,919
the rylianis document listed there it

892
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:21,519
was didn't have much information but it

893
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,080
said 25 march 1948

894
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,399
rns or whatever side that oh

895
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:28,880
i'd like to try to find that document so

896
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:31,360
it took me a long time i was going back

897
00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:33,440
through the blue book files and

898
00:32:36,789 --> 00:32:35,200
every search you would think should

899
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,799
bring it up it wasn't bringing it up i

900
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:38,799
wasn't finding a name right until one

901
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:40,640
day i don't remember how i was going

902
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,120
through massive documents and then boom

903
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:45,840
there was the ryliana's document arch

904
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:48,799
march 25th 94 and it went holy cow

905
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:51,440
so i saved it as two-page directive

906
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:54,320
i saved it and that started because

907
00:32:58,630 --> 00:32:56,399
i figured and that's what started the

908
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:58,640
phase two too the army intelligence

909
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,679
division i wasn't really con considering

910
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:03,360
them really ever

911
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,559
it just

912
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:06,320
the way it was

913
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:09,039
uh what i was gonna bring up here just

914
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,480
uh for

915
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:12,880
i don't have the actual uh directive but

916
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:15,760
we can see that it was used

917
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:17,039
um

918
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:18,720
right here

919
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:19,919
so we have

920
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:22,720
uh this is um i think it was fort bliss

921
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:23,840
this is but

922
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:25,440
anyway anyways they're saying to the

923
00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:27,279
commanding general uh air material

924
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,679
command reference letter reference

925
00:33:35,230 --> 00:33:31,200
letter intelligence division general

926
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,389
csgid 452.1 25th of march 1948 subject

927
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:42,640
unconventional aircraft into control

928
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:43,760
number a

929
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:46,720
1917 which we talked about before too

930
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,559
enclosed report of incident number 15

931
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:50,640
regarding sighting of light over camp

932
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:53,760
hood texas date can't put okay dated

933
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,480
first april 1949.

934
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,399
so um that's what you're talking about

935
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:00,960
march 20th yeah that's right

936
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:03,120
and it that did two things as you can

937
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:04,080
see

938
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:04,880
it

939
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:09,280
was already in existence because there's

940
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:11,040
a handwritten note on a

941
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,599
1947 document where somebody wrote 452.1

942
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:18,079
so obviously that filing system

943
00:34:23,109 --> 00:34:19,839
was already in place for unconventional

944
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:23,119
aircraft in the army id right but on 25

945
00:34:29,149 --> 00:34:25,679
march 1948 what that directive did was

946
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:29,159
it instituted that top secret control a

947
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:30,879
1917.

948
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,760
which 1917 is where the air staff of the

949
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:35,520
army idea was first

950
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:36,960
uh created

951
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:38,560
right

952
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:40,000
so that's obviously what that's talking

953
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:42,399
about a 1970s air staff

954
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:43,200
yeah

955
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:44,639
so

956
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,399
i mean

957
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:48,879
essentially uh your theory is is that

958
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:52,079
something crashed um is aztec new mexico

959
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,599
and this directive came out what other

960
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:56,159
what other signs around uh the date now

961
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,920
i have your notes here but

962
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:59,599
unfortunately i can't send them to my

963
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:00,640
computer

964
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:04,160
what the direction i ended up going was

965
00:36:10,829 --> 00:35:04,960
i

966
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:10,839
the closed world

967
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:13,920
and he wrote about

968
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,520
uh in on the morning of march 25th 1948

969
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,760
general karl spotts declared

970
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,520
an immediate

971
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:23,520
air defense emergency

972
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,200
for 24 hour a day emergency and

973
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:29,359
uh there's a

974
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:31,920
reference to it to another book so i

975
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:34,400
chased that reference and it led me to

976
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,160
the emerging shield i won't go grab it

977
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:38,240
but the emerging shield is pretty much

978
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,200
the

979
00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:41,119
class a book you could get on

980
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:42,800
continental air defense history in the

981
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,720
united states you know there's a lot of

982
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:46,960
other material you can get but it's

983
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:48,480
interesting because i tried to be

984
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:49,920
realistic about that i tried to go to

985
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:52,000
different places to get this material

986
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:54,960
once i found this march 25th emergency

987
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:57,280
uh information yeah and what's

988
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:58,480
interesting is

989
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:00,560
the even according to the air force

990
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:03,839
history office uh the emerging shield is

991
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:07,119
the it's the most comprehensive and well

992
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:10,720
documented source you can get right

993
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:13,280
that one is the only place

994
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,839
where march 25th 1948 is guaranteed

995
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:17,760
that's the date it started

996
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:21,359
other air intelligence i mean uh air uh

997
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:24,160
defense history pieces yeah air force

998
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:25,920
people from army people

999
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:27,920
they use their they skip the 25th

1000
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:29,119
they'll either say it started on the

1001
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,480
26th

1002
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:33,280
or the 28th of all things

1003
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:34,880
and

1004
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:37,440
we know that's not right because

1005
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:40,079
uh captain schaefel who authored the

1006
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:41,599
book with his team

1007
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:43,920
has a a footnote

1008
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:44,560
and

1009
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,960
did you think is that kenneth chiefly

1010
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:48,560
yes okay

1011
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:52,320
and uh in the footnote it says

1012
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:54,880
interstaff memo between general

1013
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,680
timberlake and anderson so he cites why

1014
00:38:02,150 --> 00:38:00,000
he says march 25th 1948 is the date

1015
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:02,160
because he has a memo

1016
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:04,320
stating it so they they talk about you

1017
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:07,920
know about uh general spot's order so i

1018
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,680
know for sure the 20 bit is the right

1019
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:11,680
date so that's just a

1020
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:13,680
slight other question

1021
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:18,630
yeah after a 10-day exercise in the

1022
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,800
northwest in early 1949 proved the

1023
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:22,400
competence of weapons controllers and

1024
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:24,400
air crews to perform successful

1025
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,240
intercepts yeah so

1026
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,800
there's one that's uh that's a quote

1027
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:30,400
if we could find the

1028
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,960
quote two or quote one if you pull up

1029
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:34,560
quote one there's something

1030
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:37,119
people can see that would really uh so

1031
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,880
again for people just tuning in we're

1032
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:40,640
talking about the date

1033
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:43,839
um march 25th 1948.

1034
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,640
um that is robert's um source of

1035
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:48,640
interest in uh

1036
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:51,359
investigations

1037
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:54,240
and that is also

1038
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:57,599
the date we think um the saucer crashed

1039
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:01,119
in aztec new mexico

1040
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:03,119
so here it is okay this is good this is

1041
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:05,119
probably the best quote

1042
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:06,880
if you want to read it and then

1043
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,920
i'll go

1044
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:09,599
back and analyze this quote would be

1045
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,079
helpful i think okay so we got from the

1046
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:14,400
emerging shield by kent kennedy schaefel

1047
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:15,440
here

1048
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:17,359
after moving from the west coast to

1049
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:20,880
participate in the war games the 505th

1050
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:23,599
or the 505 whatever they whatever those

1051
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:25,119
people call it

1052
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:27,520
was expected to remain in the east adc

1053
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,760
planned to concentrate its meager radar

1054
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:31,760
warning and control resources in the

1055
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,359
northeastern united states pending

1056
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:35,440
approval and funding of the radar fence

1057
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:36,400
plan

1058
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,480
drastically altered late in march 1948

1059
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:44,320
with no advance warning headquarters at

1060
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:46,000
united states air force in the pacific

1061
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,599
northwest

1062
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:50,160
uh shortly after

1063
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:51,520
wait did i skip something there

1064
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,240
headquarters directed the emergency air

1065
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,400
defense system be established to operate

1066
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:59,280
around the clock in alaska

1067
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,200
and the pacific northwest

1068
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:03,119
shortly after first air force in the

1069
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,119
east was ordered to put its fighter

1070
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,599
units on alert the usefulness of this

1071
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:09,839
move was uncertain

1072
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:12,079
since first air force did not yet

1073
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:14,319
control the services of the 505 unless

1074
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,640
lacked any type of radar warning and

1075
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:19,200
control capability

1076
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:22,560
these events began march 25th when spat

1077
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:24,560
suddenly informed the air staff that he

1078
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:26,720
wanted alaskan air defenses augmented

1079
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:29,040
immediately

1080
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:31,040
the following day a top secret message

1081
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:33,520
over his signature went to alaskan air

1082
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,240
command directing it to place existing

1083
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:38,400
radar warning units on continuously

1084
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:42,079
operating basis by uh for april 121 so

1085
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:44,000
we can see on the 25th march it was a

1086
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:45,680
pretty big day

1087
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:47,119
oh wait we got some more in here

1088
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,359
skipping the the last paragraph sorry

1089
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:50,720
about that

1090
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:52,960
spats initiated emergency air defense

1091
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:56,560
measures in march 1948 to 25th actually

1092
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:57,440
we're in

1093
00:41:02,230 --> 00:40:59,200
for a number of reasons first it is

1094
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,240
clear that contrary to the views of the

1095
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:04,800
cia established in 47 under the

1096
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:07,359
provisions of the national security act

1097
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,040
and by the intelligence divisions of the

1098
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:11,280
army and navy air force intelligence

1099
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:13,520
believe the united states in danger of

1100
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,560
surprise attack from the soviet union

1101
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:18,640
okay so there we go there's some key

1102
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,880
issues here first of all the first quote

1103
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:22,240
after moving from the west coast to

1104
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:25,119
participating in war games that war game

1105
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:28,000
had been planned for months it was the

1106
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:31,359
largest war game ever conducted or was

1107
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:33,680
to be the largest warrior ever conducted

1108
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:36,319
to test our air defense systems and

1109
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,560
everything and coordinate people it was

1110
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:40,079
a huge deal

1111
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:41,920
they had to cancel it because of the

1112
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:44,720
march 25th incident whatever happened

1113
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:45,920
that morning

1114
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:48,160
they had to cancel this and he declared

1115
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:49,520
an emergency

1116
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:50,319
right

1117
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:53,359
so don't tell me nothing happened

1118
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,480
i wouldn't

1119
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:56,160
no

1120
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:58,079
is there any chance that something

1121
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:00,240
happened i don't know the day before

1122
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,960
or during was it kind of more protocol

1123
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:04,079
where

1124
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:05,920
well i guess there's not protocols for

1125
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:08,319
emergencies so to speak or something

1126
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:10,000
you're not expecting but

1127
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,760
yeah it was like something unexpected

1128
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:13,839
happened yeah why would you suddenly

1129
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:16,560
declare as you know as as schaefel puts

1130
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:18,000
it you know he quite

1131
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:20,240
suddenly and unexpectedly

1132
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:22,480
declares this emergency and then this

1133
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:23,599
last

1134
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:24,880
paragraph

1135
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:28,240
the cia so after i read that i said okay

1136
00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:29,920
let me look into that like you do i went

1137
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:32,800
to the cia's foia website you know and i

1138
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,000
started pouring through that for

1139
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:36,160
historical information i got to the

1140
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:36,960
march

1141
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:39,119
war scare as you asked me about earlier

1142
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:41,040
i started reading a lot about that read

1143
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:43,040
a lot of different memos what i found

1144
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:45,920
out was because spots declared that

1145
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:47,920
emergency

1146
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:50,480
the air force and his staff and general

1147
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:53,200
chamberlain of all people of the army id

1148
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:55,280
they're the only ones that are

1149
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:56,560
like this they're the only ones that

1150
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:58,400
think the russians are about ready to

1151
00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:00,560
attack us so

1152
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:02,400
within the central intelligence agency

1153
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:04,880
there was an ad hoc group or was is i

1154
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:06,160
don't know if they still exist called

1155
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:08,720
the global survey group and they were an

1156
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:10,319
ad hoc group that would do special

1157
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:12,720
studies for the office of reports and

1158
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:15,440
estimates of the cia

1159
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:16,240
and

1160
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:19,760
estimates the most important office

1161
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,079
within the ca they are the

1162
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:24,240
the ones who get the ball rolling for

1163
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:28,800
the initial job with the caa's job is to

1164
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:30,960
gather and disseminate

1165
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,920
uh national intelligence in quote that's

1166
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:35,599
the term all right they're the ones

1167
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:37,920
responsible for that and they delineate

1168
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:39,599
it to the certain people involved in the

1169
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,119
intelligence community

1170
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:43,280
so national intelligence is the cia's

1171
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:44,560
specific

1172
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,440
okay so why do we later have a national

1173
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:51,599
intelligence director in a separate

1174
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,160
office if that's the cia's job so that's

1175
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:56,160
kind of an interesting question

1176
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,680
anyway to get back to my investigation

1177
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:01,040
i found

1178
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,400
the the the uh report that the global

1179
00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:06,640
survey group did for the ore

1180
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:07,839
was

1181
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,240
22-48

1182
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:12,480
and that just the classification it was

1183
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:15,119
report 22 from this ad [\h__\h] group in

1184
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:18,800
1948 so i i got i found that file i read

1185
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:19,599
it

1186
00:44:25,829 --> 00:44:24,560
in one of these

1187
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:25,839
they

1188
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:37,200
another 60-day study because

1189
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:39,119
they were sure

1190
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:41,920
general spots was clueless i mean

1191
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:43,920
nobody knew what he was talking about

1192
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,839
nobody nobody in officialdom agreed that

1193
00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:49,280
the russians were about ready to

1194
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:50,960
surprise attack us there was just there

1195
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,400
was absolutely no way they were going to

1196
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:54,480
do that because we were the only ones

1197
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:55,839
that had the atomic bomb and could

1198
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:56,960
deliver it

1199
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:57,920
right

1200
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,160
yeah why would they do that especially

1201
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:02,400
yeah after showing you know the damage

1202
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:04,319
pretty much of what that bomb does so

1203
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:07,040
this is quote number three

1204
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:10,240
yeah uh a memorandum for the director

1205
00:45:19,030 --> 00:45:15,349
yeah 2248 that's what you were talking

1206
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,040
about that's a bob note yeah

1207
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:21,359
we've certainly never seen any air force

1208
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:23,040
estimate that could be described as

1209
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,960
likely to involve this country in war

1210
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,119
nor did we see any estimate on soviet

1211
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:29,440
intentions to attack scandinavia as

1212
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,920
reported by alsops i think he was

1213
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:33,839
secretary of uh

1214
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:35,680
lewis also i can't remember what his

1215
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:37,760
post was at that it is quite true

1216
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,800
however

1217
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:40,560
that at the time of the preparation of

1218
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:42,400
the 60-day estimate for the second

1219
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:45,920
meeting of the iac directors and of ore

1220
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:49,040
2248 the air force elements were far

1221
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:56,230
interesting and there this isn't the

1222
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,119
only report because in an h1 they came

1223
00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:01,760
up with the same conclusion no

1224
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:04,000
no ways is russians

1225
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:06,240
so it is yeah

1226
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:08,880
and that carries throughout these

1227
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,960
investigations i mean i found something

1228
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:12,079
as

1229
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,000
know which is where records for the most

1230
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:18,480
part kind of stop unfortunately

1231
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:20,880
but uh they're talking about how

1232
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:22,640
it's implausible that it could be the

1233
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,160
soviet union

1234
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:26,240
you know sending how they described it

1235
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,640
one way one way is uh vehicle missions

1236
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:32,800
basically one only reconnaissance

1237
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:35,200
vehicles have been a suicide mission

1238
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:37,280
yeah to do that

1239
00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:39,040
so yeah that's pretty interesting and i

1240
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:42,640
read one thing that was about

1241
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:46,000
recently it was about a sighting um

1242
00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:49,839
during the project twinkle late 40s

1243
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:52,880
uh where they estimated if something

1244
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:55,280
came from the soviet union

1245
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:56,880
um or

1246
00:47:01,349 --> 00:46:59,760
russia over to that area where like um

1247
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:01,359
that you know the south

1248
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:02,880
southwest was

1249
00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:07,119
it would have arrived in uh 15 minutes

1250
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:09,520
so i i don't think any technology

1251
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,200
existed for uh something to travel that

1252
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:14,960
quickly

1253
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:16,480
at that time

1254
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:19,760
so so they're like it has to be if it's

1255
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:20,800
you know

1256
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:21,920
the only thing they could think of

1257
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:24,880
basically was like an american like

1258
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:26,960
testing missiles over their own

1259
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:28,000
uh

1260
00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:28,880
right

1261
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:30,710
you know sensitive installations

1262
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:32,400
[Laughter]

1263
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:35,040
well last night i saw them testing one

1264
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:37,040
of the new final airplanes it was right

1265
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:39,599
over my house

1266
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:41,680
they're testing missiles over at their

1267
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:44,559
laboratories

1268
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:46,480
hey where should we test these things i

1269
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:48,400
don't know we got los alamos over there

1270
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:52,079
why don't we throw a couple over there

1271
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,240
we look at you know we've covered some

1272
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:56,800
of the what i found and

1273
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:01,040
i go back and i read scott ramsey's book

1274
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:02,319
and

1275
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:04,240
there are several witnesses he's talked

1276
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:05,760
to

1277
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:06,640
and

1278
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:07,760
they all

1279
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:10,880
use that same date

1280
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:13,680
and there's just no way

1281
00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:15,440
you're going to convince me that all of

1282
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,119
those different witnesses

1283
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:19,440
were doing research on air defense

1284
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:21,920
history and happened to come across that

1285
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:24,559
that order by general spots

1286
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:26,319
to declare an emergency on that morning

1287
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:28,960
there's just no way right so how would

1288
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:32,000
they just happen to have that same date

1289
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:34,559
i just can't get over that i'm not

1290
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:37,359
it's not that i believe the aztec story

1291
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:41,119
outright it's that this stuff shows me

1292
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,760
something huge did happen that morning

1293
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:45,440
and if it wasn't that it was something

1294
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:47,359
as as important

1295
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,480
right

1296
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:50,319
yeah well

1297
00:48:55,390 --> 00:48:52,160
to me too like that the kicker is that

1298
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:55,400
they have the directive okay

1299
00:49:02,309 --> 00:48:59,839
452.1 march 25th 1948 that comes out and

1300
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,319
it's all over blue book reports it's the

1301
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:04,160
directive to investigate unconventional

1302
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:06,319
aircraft yeah why do they make that they

1303
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:07,599
have a reason

1304
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:08,880
we had a reason

1305
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:09,760
and

1306
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:12,800
another little twist i got on

1307
00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:16,000
a very well respected and i respect him

1308
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:17,200
too is uh

1309
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:20,880
from the old schools uh dr mike swartz

1310
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:23,839
yes we used to swear

1311
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:27,280
and i sent him a very disjointed i can

1312
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,680
be disjointed when i'm writing sometimes

1313
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:31,040
and

1314
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:32,319
it

1315
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:34,559
he didn't take kylie to my

1316
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,960
believing in aztec it didn't seem like

1317
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:38,640
and and i know that's because there's a

1318
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,800
lot of bad blood between the

1319
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:42,160
the uh

1320
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:44,000
you know ramsay team and some of the

1321
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,280
other

1322
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:47,200
old ufo people

1323
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:48,720
uh

1324
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:51,280
not old ufo people older crowd of the

1325
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:54,240
older history of them sure

1326
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:55,280
and

1327
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,800
got to try hard not to take sides

1328
00:50:03,750 --> 00:50:02,559
because i but i love the ramsey's in

1329
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:03,760
their team i've gotten to know them

1330
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:05,599
pretty well never met him in person but

1331
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:07,760
we've talked for years now and on the

1332
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:09,280
phone it's kind of like you and me i

1333
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:10,880
mean i i consider you a pretty good

1334
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:12,800
friend but we have yet we have never met

1335
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:15,440
each other in person yeah

1336
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:17,280
yeah

1337
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:18,720
it can't be

1338
00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:21,200
avoided that there are massive numbers

1339
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:22,960
and growing every day more that i look

1340
00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:24,079
into this

1341
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:25,599
that something weird happened on that

1342
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,800
morning

1343
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,079
and

1344
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:30,559
i just like i said i have a hard time

1345
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:32,480
disassociating the date these people

1346
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:34,319
have come up with for the date that

1347
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:37,440
saucer landed on the mesa yeah and

1348
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:39,760
the fact that i i can now confirm yes

1349
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:41,280
something really big did happen that

1350
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:43,440
morning and it was so big they declared

1351
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:47,359
an emergency over it right um

1352
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:48,960
you know it's interesting too general

1353
00:50:52,829 --> 00:50:51,680
vandenberg and general they they didn't

1354
00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:52,839
see eye to

1355
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:54,800
eye and it's interesting that general

1356
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:55,920
spots

1357
00:50:59,109 --> 00:50:57,520
he got the job as chief of staff of the

1358
00:51:01,670 --> 00:50:59,119
air force because he promised general

1359
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:01,680
arnold half arnold that he would because

1360
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:03,359
the biggest thing going at the end of

1361
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:04,640
the war was

1362
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:06,880
we need a separate air force we need a

1363
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:08,559
totally separate air force

1364
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:11,119
that's not part of the army and so that

1365
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:12,960
was pretty much agreed upon and it was

1366
00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:14,400
spot's job

1367
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:15,920
to get that done

1368
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:18,640
so he gets that done and on april 1st he

1369
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:20,240
retires

1370
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:22,800
and vandenberg takes over and what's the

1371
00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:24,880
first thing vandenberg did

1372
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:27,440
he he dissolved the emergency

1373
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:28,400
wow

1374
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,440
yeah

1375
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:31,040
that is interesting

1376
00:51:36,950 --> 00:51:34,240
and he's apparently a part of the

1377
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:36,960
majestic 12.

1378
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:38,640
you know i think you could agree with me

1379
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:39,839
you know

1380
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:42,400
as far as if there's an mj12 type group

1381
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:45,599
it's got to be closely tied to the army

1382
00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:47,359
yeah and and what we've found out with

1383
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:51,599
this 450 2.1 and a 1917 thing

1384
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:53,599
because there's got to be a bunch of

1385
00:51:59,030 --> 00:51:56,319
files on that that aren't in blue book

1386
00:52:01,750 --> 00:51:59,040
that are all in the army id files or you

1387
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:01,760
know sometimes well recently i've i've

1388
00:52:06,870 --> 00:52:04,400
had a hunch that the caa has a lot more

1389
00:52:09,670 --> 00:52:06,880
to do with this than we think because as

1390
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,680
i tried to portray in that uh robertson

1391
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:11,920
panel and i've found a couple more

1392
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:14,480
documents to back up the point

1393
00:52:17,829 --> 00:52:15,839
is that

1394
00:52:20,309 --> 00:52:17,839
the robertson panel was put together by

1395
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:20,319
the cia and what came out of that was a

1396
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:23,119
debunking program um that the air force

1397
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:26,400
was supposed to carry out and a month or

1398
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:30,240
two months later in may 1953

1399
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,319
it's they have a couple documents that

1400
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:34,880
talk about how the cia

1401
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:36,000
is now

1402
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:37,119
uh

1403
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:41,920
that goes in the

1404
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:45,040
the physics and applied science division

1405
00:52:49,349 --> 00:52:47,280
and so another document i haven't been

1406
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:49,359
able i found after the video because

1407
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:50,720
that's how it always works right you

1408
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:54,079
find more stuff after you do the job

1409
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:57,119
but but this one says that uh the air

1410
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:58,480
force

1411
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:01,200
uh maintains the community

1412
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:03,200
responsibility

1413
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:09,520
and if it's um a

1414
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:12,319
natural or aerial phenomenon it goes to

1415
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:14,480
the cia physics

1416
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:18,720
department but if it's a hardware

1417
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:20,720
uh thing it goes to their applied

1418
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,559
science division

1419
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:24,880
so to me if there's

1420
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:26,400
you know people say well why aren't

1421
00:53:32,790 --> 00:53:28,960
there any i've said this to you like

1422
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:32,800
i've read 700 some new mexico ufo

1423
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:34,160
documents

1424
00:53:40,829 --> 00:53:37,920
nothing on an aztec but in that document

1425
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:40,839
also says that they are to

1426
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:45,520
um take over ownership of specific

1427
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:48,400
uh ufo files

1428
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:49,280
you know

1429
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:53,040
so if they're going to the applied

1430
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:54,720
applied science and physics department

1431
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:56,880
these ufo things said the cia they're

1432
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:00,240
supposed to take over certain files

1433
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:02,800
well if there's a crash craft

1434
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:04,880
and they're going to be studying it

1435
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:11,910
you know interesting too because

1436
00:54:16,390 --> 00:54:14,240
we see uh and i'm i'm sure you've seen

1437
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:16,400
glimpses of it already too is

1438
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,599
rosco helen cutter it's very interesting

1439
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:21,920
to contemplate what he knew

1440
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:22,880
because

1441
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:25,680
it almost seems to me

1442
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:26,640
like

1443
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:29,440
far from being mj1

1444
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:31,520
he was like more out of the loop at the

1445
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:32,480
beginning

1446
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:33,440
because

1447
00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:35,760
there are countless files while he's

1448
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:36,880
director

1449
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:39,280
where he is at odds with the army

1450
00:54:42,710 --> 00:54:40,880
intelligence division

1451
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:42,720
over information that's being withheld

1452
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:44,240
from him and he keeps asking him about

1453
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,839
it he keeps asking about him

1454
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:47,760
that does not change

1455
00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:50,319
until helen cutter is post he's removed

1456
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:51,680
from his post

1457
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:53,920
given a ship directors have to go over

1458
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:57,680
in in korea right and how an army

1459
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,480
officer takes over the cie uh general

1460
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:02,559
walter beetle smith right very

1461
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:04,640
interesting and so that's when all the

1462
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:05,920
stuff you're trying that's when this all

1463
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:08,960
starts when walter smith takes over

1464
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:11,920
so they needed somebody on the inside

1465
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,280
army

1466
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:15,359
that had the secrets i mean this is me

1467
00:55:18,789 --> 00:55:16,720
talking but this is what it looked like

1468
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:18,799
to me the army's controlling these

1469
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:20,960
secrets like the crashes and stuff and

1470
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:23,440
so helen carter's getting close so they

1471
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:25,359
got to remove him

1472
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:26,799
so helen cutter is removed from the

1473
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:29,920
scene and an army general takes over and

1474
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:31,920
what's the first thing first couple

1475
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:34,079
steps they do robertson committees like

1476
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,400
one of the first yeah the whole

1477
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:38,160
direction changes

1478
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:41,920
and he's the one that actually

1479
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:44,559
pretty much uh bedell smith or walter

1480
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:48,240
smith right that's his name um

1481
00:55:54,789 --> 00:55:51,599
i posted this on

1482
00:55:57,109 --> 00:55:54,799
um twitter of course uh but

1483
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:57,119
and i don't have the document uh handy

1484
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:00,240
right now but he basically says

1485
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:03,839
that the phenomenon are real

1486
00:56:09,910 --> 00:56:06,960
and they he suggests that they start

1487
00:56:12,789 --> 00:56:09,920
studying it for potential offensive and

1488
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:12,799
defensive psychological warfare

1489
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:15,119
like opportunities

1490
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:16,480
it sticks like that's all they care

1491
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:19,359
about is psyops yeah mm-hmm

1492
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:22,480
that's i i agree that is another strange

1493
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:24,880
suspicious twist in the story but why

1494
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:28,079
would if they were aware of something

1495
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:30,720
else acquired they so consumed with

1496
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:32,960
including hillen cotter though he was

1497
00:56:37,910 --> 00:56:35,520
the guy that started project bluebird

1498
00:56:39,030 --> 00:56:37,920
which was one of the early mind control

1499
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:39,040
programs

1500
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:40,480
although i don't think you could

1501
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:43,359
consider it a minecraft it was more like

1502
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:45,359
if he was aware of

1503
00:56:48,630 --> 00:56:47,200
abductions at that point you could say

1504
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:48,640
maybe they were trying to figure out if

1505
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,160
it was really true the aliens could

1506
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,240
erase your memory because that's what

1507
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:53,599
they were trying to do see if they could

1508
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:55,040
selectively

1509
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,720
erase your memory so you wouldn't

1510
00:57:00,549 --> 00:56:59,040
remember something you know it's kind of

1511
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:00,559
uh

1512
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:05,680
unfortunate is kind of going back to

1513
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:08,079
what i was saying about you know certain

1514
00:57:12,069 --> 00:57:10,559
ufo files being in the cia and they're

1515
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:12,079
in their basically their research

1516
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:14,400
department osi office of scientific

1517
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:16,799
intelligence and you find this document

1518
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:20,400
here from 1956 february 9th

1519
00:57:24,390 --> 00:57:22,880
memorandum for uh office

1520
00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:24,400
responsibilities for non-conventional

1521
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:26,960
types of air vehicles

1522
00:57:32,390 --> 00:57:29,760
and you scroll down well first of all it

1523
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:32,400
says files will be maintained in asd

1524
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:35,599
i don't know what that means asd

1525
00:57:39,750 --> 00:57:38,079
but in oncoming raw reports where in our

1526
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:39,760
judgment the subject matter may provide

1527
00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:41,599
information bearing on foreign weapons

1528
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:43,680
systems research or development

1529
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,680
very interesting because the foreign

1530
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:47,680
technology division as we know

1531
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:52,319
investigated ufos foreign foreign

1532
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:53,760
but then we go down here subject

1533
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:55,200
responsibility

1534
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:56,720
to

1535
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,630
it has been recommended that the raw

1536
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:05,040
intelligence and the obsolete finished

1537
00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:08,960
reports on ufo now filed and as i said

1538
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:10,799
electronics division

1539
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:12,400
which this is four years later than

1540
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:20,470
isn't that interesting that sucks

1541
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:21,920
and they shouldn't be destroying

1542
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:22,880
anything

1543
00:58:26,950 --> 00:58:24,640
no

1544
00:58:29,030 --> 00:58:26,960
be destroyed why are they so interested

1545
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:29,040
in getting rid of the evidence

1546
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:34,470
so they can say we don't have any

1547
00:58:39,670 --> 00:58:37,520
yeah you think i think

1548
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:39,680
when you looked at our files we didn't

1549
00:58:43,990 --> 00:58:41,599
find anything in the file there was a

1550
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:44,000
ufo file but it was empty

1551
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:45,440
there's nothing in it

1552
00:58:49,990 --> 00:58:47,119
yeah we we went straight to the

1553
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:50,000
electronics division as you suggested

1554
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:51,680
there's nothing there in fact there is

1555
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:53,440
no electrons

1556
00:58:59,349 --> 00:58:56,559
yeah so that that's pretty irritating so

1557
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,359
because obviously i mean i find out my

1558
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:01,920
studies that cia office scientific

1559
00:59:07,510 --> 00:59:04,640
intelligence takes over a lot of the ufo

1560
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:07,520
stuff for research uh purposes

1561
00:59:11,510 --> 00:59:09,599
and to find out four years later that

1562
00:59:13,030 --> 00:59:11,520
they destroyed the files you know or at

1563
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:13,040
least they wrote that

1564
00:59:15,430 --> 00:59:13,920
you know

1565
00:59:17,030 --> 00:59:15,440
if they did or not who knows they could

1566
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:17,040
have just wrote that you know because

1567
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:18,480
they think somebody will see it and they

1568
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:21,359
won't even ask now or something but

1569
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:22,880
i don't know who knows those

1570
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:25,520
psychological warfare doofuses

1571
00:59:29,030 --> 00:59:27,839
perhaps people they're crazy

1572
00:59:30,630 --> 00:59:29,040
yeah

1573
00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:30,640
you know if there was somebody in the

1574
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:32,880
anybody in the chat if there's anything

1575
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:35,839
in the chat that has access and time and

1576
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:37,520
the ability to go to the archives

1577
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,280
archives 2

1578
00:59:42,789 --> 00:59:41,200
i can't i've been in contact with them

1579
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:42,799
and i know the files on the army

1580
00:59:45,670 --> 00:59:44,880
intelligence divisions intelligence

1581
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:45,680
group

1582
00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:47,920
who was the ones in charge of this who

1583
00:59:51,910 --> 00:59:49,359
would have been in charge of the crash

1584
00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:51,920
stuff including march 25th they have the

1585
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:53,119
files there

1586
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:55,119
but you got to go there physically in

1587
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:57,440
order to get anything they won't send it

1588
01:00:02,390 --> 00:59:58,640
through the mail

1589
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:02,400
or via email oh man i gotta go

1590
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:04,640
so there are files there i know there

1591
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:06,000
are we need the files on the

1592
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:07,440
intelligence group that was controlled

1593
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:09,440
by colonel riley ennis

1594
01:00:13,069 --> 01:00:11,440
and that is gonna tell us

1595
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:13,079
uh there's that's probably where the

1596
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:17,280
452.1 and 80 1970 stuff could be i'm

1597
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:18,960
going

1598
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:20,240
it's settled

1599
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:25,200
someone's going to go someone's got to

1600
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,880
do it if we're going to get any deeper

1601
01:00:30,309 --> 01:00:28,799
into this somebody's got to do that

1602
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:30,319
because we need to know what the army

1603
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:31,760
intelligence division

1604
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:35,760
knew about unconventional aircraft yeah

1605
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:38,640
but 50 years later i'm like march 25th

1606
01:00:48,710 --> 01:00:46,309
yes but uh i'll go i'll go to the

1607
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:48,720
frickin archives i should throw some

1608
01:00:54,470 --> 01:00:50,400
sort of fundraiser maybe so my wife

1609
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:56,390
keep in touch with it as that has that

1610
01:01:00,549 --> 01:00:58,319
unfolded it would be really cool yeah

1611
01:01:02,309 --> 01:01:00,559
but i want to do that so and i've just

1612
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:02,319
wanted to go to the archives again

1613
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,720
anyways or not again but you know

1614
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:06,319
actually go there for the first time and

1615
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:08,640
see some of these files in person

1616
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:10,799
yeah i was able to visit it years ago

1617
01:01:15,829 --> 01:01:13,680
one time it's an amazing place do they

1618
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:15,839
have you know sometimes i i show those

1619
01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:17,440
pictures from foreign technology

1620
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:19,040
division do they do you think they have

1621
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,960
those like the original color versions

1622
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:22,319
or anything

1623
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:25,280
well i don't they uh what the [\h__\h]

1624
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:27,680
yeah i think that is their files you're

1625
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:29,680
getting direct access to the archives

1626
01:01:33,349 --> 01:01:31,680
yeah and i think that would so whatever

1627
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:33,359
you find physically

1628
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:35,440
if we were going to find more stuff like

1629
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:36,960
that which you're getting i think we

1630
01:01:40,230 --> 01:01:38,400
would have to look into the files of the

1631
01:01:41,589 --> 01:01:40,240
director of intelligence

1632
01:01:42,870 --> 01:01:41,599
uh during some of these periods because

1633
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:42,880
i know

1634
01:01:46,390 --> 01:01:45,040
they uh there were definitely inquiries

1635
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:46,400
you can read in the blue book files

1636
01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:49,520
where whether it was fornay or

1637
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,160
or uh repelt or some they were looking

1638
01:01:55,510 --> 01:01:54,720
for something right and they found out

1639
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:55,520
that

1640
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:57,440
all these files were missing and they

1641
01:02:01,029 --> 01:01:58,720
were right because they were with the

1642
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:01,039
director of intelligence and he had a he

1643
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:03,760
had his own files on it so probably

1644
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:07,520
there too these people bogart files huh

1645
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,039
it's just it's a common thing right

1646
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:11,440
you're in charge of a secret yeah thing

1647
01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:14,000
and what's you're gonna make everything

1648
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:15,359
what they didn't have internet they

1649
01:02:21,190 --> 01:02:17,760
couldn't share a google drive folder

1650
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,200
what that's wrong with these people

1651
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:23,440
man i would just love to be able to have

1652
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:25,440
a week at the archives to go through all

1653
01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:26,799
this stuff

1654
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:28,880
yeah i would do it i would just i would

1655
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:30,720
say as long as i was allowed to stay and

1656
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:32,400
i would just get they'd kick your ass

1657
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:34,880
out mr gopher uh your wife's calling

1658
01:02:38,309 --> 01:02:36,880
again she expects you home soon i'm

1659
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:38,319
gonna make mcdonald's wrong we'll be

1660
01:02:42,069 --> 01:02:40,000
right back

1661
01:02:45,109 --> 01:02:42,079
this guy's getting this greasy paws all

1662
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:47,430
girl your white gloves

1663
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:49,359
all right sir well i had a great time

1664
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:51,200
talking with you oh me too it's good to

1665
01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:53,680
talk with you again yeah you too uh and

1666
01:02:59,910 --> 01:02:56,480
we will do it again um anything you want

1667
01:03:02,549 --> 01:02:59,920
to leave us with you know whether it be

1668
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:02,559
you know an advice for new ufo

1669
01:03:07,029 --> 01:03:04,640
researchers or something you want to get

1670
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:07,039
off your chest anything at all

1671
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:08,240
um

1672
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:10,160
i just i'm like everybody else i'm

1673
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:12,000
seeing what's going on

1674
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:14,000
and i'm trying really hard not to get

1675
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,880
excited about it because we've the rug

1676
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:18,480
has been pulled out from under us so

1677
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:20,720
many times by

1678
01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:22,880
the left hand and the right hand not

1679
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:24,400
working together

1680
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:26,720
and we're still seeing that so i don't

1681
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:30,319
know but it is true that these different

1682
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:33,359
faculties are helping to smooth out

1683
01:03:36,549 --> 01:03:35,599
the rough edges if nothing else

1684
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:36,559
and

1685
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:38,000
the next step would be to be able to

1686
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:39,599
have as many

1687
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:41,359
military people as

1688
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:44,079
they want as they personally would want

1689
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,720
should be allowed to testify somehow

1690
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:49,200
so we can build up a huge dossier of all

1691
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:50,319
their

1692
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:54,079
and then all of the files including the

1693
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:55,599
old blue book buzz and all this so they

1694
01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:57,440
should all be pulled together

1695
01:04:02,150 --> 01:03:59,680
and put into a place where like the

1696
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:02,160
archives but a special archives where

1697
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:04,000
everybody is welcome to go visit and

1698
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:06,160
research anytime they want yeah and

1699
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:07,839
study anything they want i think that's

1700
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:09,920
the way it should be all

1701
01:04:13,510 --> 01:04:11,200
should be all

1702
01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:13,520
housed in a single place unless it's

1703
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:15,839
military stuff that are there's going to

1704
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:17,359
be stuff they can't

1705
01:04:21,990 --> 01:04:18,960
share but

1706
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:22,000
a lot of it is shareable and

1707
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:24,480
it should be given to researchers to

1708
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,720
to ponder and continue

1709
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:28,079
right uh

1710
01:04:30,390 --> 01:04:29,680
you know that song

1711
01:04:31,829 --> 01:04:30,400
because

1712
01:04:32,610 --> 01:04:31,839
unfortunately we're the only ones

1713
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:32,620
willing to do it

1714
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:34,480
[Laughter]

1715
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:36,000
here's a good comment jay what's up

1716
01:04:40,390 --> 01:04:38,079
brother good to see you in the chat he

1717
01:04:42,260 --> 01:04:40,400
says good to see you today uh love your

1718
01:04:45,829 --> 01:04:42,270
insights and your character voices

1719
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:45,839
[Laughter]

1720
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:47,520
yeah maybe next time

1721
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:49,440
you got the best chat room i think of

1722
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:52,400
anybody yeah drakon everybody daniel

1723
01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:54,720
christensen andres

1724
01:04:58,789 --> 01:04:57,520
lara wait is there a christian here i

1725
01:05:01,349 --> 01:04:58,799
didn't notice

1726
01:05:02,069 --> 01:05:01,359
christian's not here is he christian

1727
01:05:05,029 --> 01:05:02,079
no

1728
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:05,039
i brought this my mom sent this to me

1729
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:07,200
out of it

1730
01:05:13,029 --> 01:05:10,000
uh you don't scare me i was raised by a

1731
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:13,039
danish mother with a wooden spoon

1732
01:05:17,790 --> 01:05:15,039
you know my mother and father weren't

1733
01:05:21,029 --> 01:05:17,800
danish but i was also

1734
01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:21,039
[Laughter]

1735
01:05:24,710 --> 01:05:22,640
all raised

1736
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,720
all right all right well i hope

1737
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:26,880
everybody has an awesome day and megan

1738
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:29,200
and megan hey megan how you doing hey

1739
01:05:33,430 --> 01:05:30,480
everybody

1740
01:05:35,910 --> 01:05:33,440
where are they oh we got josh too

1741
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:35,920
so yeah we got a good crowd good crowd

1742
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:38,640
today so that's the problem of all all

1743
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:39,839
right sir

1744
01:05:45,029 --> 01:05:41,760
all right i appreciate you yeah nice

1745
01:05:47,029 --> 01:05:45,039
talking to you captain cobra

1746
01:05:51,430 --> 01:05:47,039
over and out all right take care

1747
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:53,670
peace out everybody thanks for joining i

1748
01:06:21,589 --> 01:05:56,880
had a great time and we'll see you